with Roy Hay

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Roy Hay

Author & Writer

Former academic and a veteran sports writer, Roy Hay has been described as ‘one of Australia’s most influential football writers’ and there’s not much he doesn’t know about the ‘World Game’. Author of multiple books including several about soccer and Australia’s history in the game, Roy has been a player, coach, manager, club official, referee and journalist, and that’s only one side of the man. With plenty of Scottish wit and canny insight into what makes people tick, Roy proved to be a delightful guest In the Book Cave.

Jennifer Kloester

Host

Jennifer Kloester is an Australian author of Young Adult, Biography & Historical Fiction.

Her first novel, ‘The Cinderella Moment’, was published by Penguin Australia and Swoon Romance in 2013 and was followed by the sequel, ‘The Rapunzel Dilemma’ in 2014.

Jennifer has given talks around the world on Georgette Heyer and the Regency, and is a passionate advocate for women writers, books and reading.

Read the transcript

[0:00] Music.

[0:08] Welcome Roy Hay to the Book Cave. Thank you Jen, it’s marvellous to be here and what a wonderful location.
So Roy, you are a writer of non-fiction.

[0:27] I don’t know that that’s absolutely true most of it is attempts at nonfiction.
I think at the very least you can say that history has a lot of material that is argumentative.
And therefore we’re still trying to work out the puzzle and find out for the truth really it’s about things and of course there are competing versions of that.

[1:00] And therefore as you know when you’re writing your novel right you wanted to be fair to all the guys,
personnel who appeared in this. I on the other hand the boring thing about history but the essential thing about history is you can’t wander too far from the evidence, no matter what the evidence is.
And that’s what pulls you back to the essence of History I think.

[1:32] Let’s go back to the beginning of Roy Hay, so Scottish. Can’t disguise that.
In the southwest I was born within a long drop punt of Dunces Cottage in Alloway which is on the outskirts of Eyre.
But in 1947 my father go ahead Monster Ship off of very small.
Primary School in a village called Stratton.
And that’s where we moved in 1947 that you have.
The great love of soccer.
Which is one of the defining things I suspect in your life but folks is well so you at.

[2:32] Guess I could just got the kids straight but I think you’re a great fiction writer as well Roy Halladay.

[2:46] In that Village in strength straight on reading Waverley novels.
A lot of it Famous Five.

[3:04] Detective novels from crane taglyan in the peace.
But relief whatever crop top and when I left primary school went to care Academy in Mabel which is the,
9 miles away are both very lucky and the teachers I had. Torrent.
For two reasons I suppose one of the scruffy system of Education was a very broad rather than a deep one.
Show that you would be studying the whole range of subjects until we would ever French teacher who would get me being a dabbling in French we had.

[3:53] We had a Lawton teacher who taught by the old school message you did your homework cuz I walked out,
and you put it down on these desk you walked around the other side of the knee belted you to indicate that you haven’t got it right,
I’m so I left them the basics of Latin very quickly in the first two years but then something drastic happened he left to become Headmaster of another school.

[4:24] And a friend of my father’s was appointed in his place but he had a fatal flaw.
He supported are United soccer team football team,
and of course that’s meant that we could diverting from Monday to Friday by talking football rather than Latin and my Latin went down there,
but I don’t show her the history teacher whose name is never a complete blank but he introduced me to,
historical writing not just historical novels but,
proper history and I think that much stuff stuck,
Secondary School.
When I like school I went to their first for a couple of years so every two years in the service and then we had The Parting of the ways.
I am I.

[5:42] We had a couple billeted owners in the house we lived at 9 a.m.
And she was in the Royal of Jericho her so she would come home with aircraft recognition you know those silhouette counts could you remember that,
I’m actually had this was a little under an s and an H or no.
Before I could write my name I could tell the difference between a hurricane and spitfire Diamond a me 109.
So I join the Royal Observer cooler and then went to the Air Force for a couple of years.
So I might asleep normal,
although we had a very small again out of any small final two years.
At one point they were even talking about closing down the senior secondary but then they decided to bust people in from Fargo to field and keep it going
choke and two years in the Air Force one of which Monster University doing engineering.

[7:02] But anyway we’ve pocket company I knocked out right in front of a couple of years doing our jobs doing some uncertificated teaching in a school in.
And then decided Davis time I screwed did not actually did some work in the end Road Glasgow University,
first year I was doing reading English.
Alright logic 1 Unitus history that was with a view to doing a shorty ordinary degree which is already broad-based.
. Mike would have meant doing languages as well so I parked on 10th and their donors,
in the second year degree are helping to finish up in an economic history tutorial.

[8:01] But I met my wife.
It all becomes clear all becomes clear honours degree from Glasgow.
They’re always watch a link with paleo because there was what they called the snail exhibition after an old fella from the 17th century who left your money to send Bright Young Scott’s to
baleal myself on the classic scholarly they always supported to one from,
the classics on one from the whole of the rest of the University so that’s the one that I flipped.
So I’m off to Billy oh but there was a problem because we were both about to get married and marriage colors will not allowed to accept the snail,
exhibition so I had Christopher Hill grilling me about dinner did you realize you couldn’t,
I disagree Josh Young Scott saying but I’m not married yet.

[9:15] Anyway so there a weight restriction so they went to the privy Council and they will change so that each color screwed
exhibition
maintenance on a great story is Secret Story
if you are married you would distract serious about you.

[9:48] Effectual rising of the rating don’t know why your phone is you were you exposed to a whole new kind of reading old so pretty much the same.
I assume and you would know this yourself I think if you do economic history aside did.

[10:07] There is nothing that is not germane to.
Are you pure mathematics off at the show,
elements in history,
trying to make sure that the politics comes into it because in Glasgow they still referred to that department that’s the department of political economy economics and it wasn’t an economic hit.
Economic history branched off from.
Which animal eats into your first book the origins of the liberal welfare reforms 1906 to 1914,
still in prison.

[10:59] What if I must say,
yeah but not like Georgia.
Most of it snow.
This ovc arises from your academic studies is it you then went on to write.
The development of the British welfare another.
Really sick way across to a really interesting soccer or football as you would call it it’s the right of the Wilco that I need to save to need to call it so I can because we have.
So I’m really fascinated by these shipped is Segway where we’ve now got a lot more books about.
We have about economic history.

[12:00] Festival this the family story.
My grandfather was the first traction captain.

[12:12] Temple James Dunn hey and you know that the religious wars in Glasgow where active well into the twentieth century.
But I wasn’t.
Involved in any other way in the game and then did my wife will tell you that she married me under false pretences because when we were gone school was the only. In my life with.
Involved in in in the game I played indoor soccer in a plate squash but not soccer.

[12:47] When she came to visit us at home and straighten in this tiny little village where we got our television from Northern Ireland that shows you how close we were.

[13:02] The family would be glued to this black and white television.
Which looked like the match was being played
in a constant snowstorm we used to save it Scottish television sent somebody out with a box brownie with a circle over the agent regarding the mattress that’s so she couldn’t
I need longer be unaware that the world,
a bit of chocolate in the background but there was no writing about it there was no involvement in the game really,
I didn’t play at you. When I was there,
there was a massive difference incidentally between Glasgow and Bailey old as far as soccer was concerned in Glasgow you played on,
pictures that consisted of black ice on broken glass so that you spent another after the game extracting the pitch from your legs.
And then you had a shower.

[14:10] In Oxford who played on the Bowling Green and washed in the sink Annie wait wait we finish up after Oxford.
Get offered a job at University of East Anglia and show we head out there.
Francis has been teaching in East Oxford the Wildwood at student they are keeping me in the style of which I wish to become accustomed
East Anglia she gets a job teaching and geography in one of the schools there on I have to stop.

[14:53] Teaching the subject right checking on me I’m doing finishing off my thesis and after,
3 years 1967 to 79 get offers off a job.

[15:12] University which would have been quite nice but I thought that was the place you would spend your declining year funeral,
I’m also from Glasgow so I went back to Glasgow this time to teach.

[15:28] And become heavily involved in the carpet life of the University I mean it’s just about the time,
beginnings of the breakdown,
post-war consensus about the welfare state the benefits of unionism and,
I will attempt to create a new Society after the war. Consensus is breaking down you got people like Edward Heath prime minister who starts closing the shipyards in gospel,
and I shall we become involved with the protest movements in the show on that.
Fat. Staged a bit of Journalism because we actually published a newspaper called The Gospel news,
I’m sorry interviewing at the shop steward Center
the other people involved in the struggles to save the Scottish economy or the old school.

[16:45] And I get a bunch of students at Glasgow who are.
I’m interested in the the shots of history that I was teaching which involved.
Oral history as well as you know the conventional written history on our also got a gig with the open University,
which had a Scottish component.

[17:18] What’s various friends at University of strathclyde the open University and so on we were really,
involved in the the labor the links between the labor movement and University at that time short but you really interesting time on the other hand on the Senate of the,
University I can see you another type in the slippers just over the horizon I’m Bill in with the bricks you know,
and then I’m sitting in my studying in La Quinta another little village where we move to.

[18:02] I’m reading the times higher ed supplement and heel stretch new University opening up in Australia that’s going on and off-campus teaching in the same Institution.
I’m not sure that’s my job description we ought to go there so wonderful and shaky Francis.
The date for Beacon show the application goes off on here nothing for 2 months,
then I get a phone call in the middle of the night saying can you come to London then a couple of days for an interview.
Coordinate London have the interview I think it went alright,
don’t hear anything for another couple of months then get another phone call in the middle of the night train.
I’m sure I’ll buy a couple of months later we are on our way to,
does he like in Australia many ways you can see how the Hmong grow,
high-speed in developing like to describe myself but I suspect there was a.

[19:25] Got here.
Enhance my reading in many ways has been built around all the variety of things which which have been.

[19:37] Involved.

[19:42] Was it a disappointment to find that sucker was such a sort of you know on the side for ritual sport as opposed to the IFL.

[19:52] We were we were lucky because we arrived in September 1977 just in time to see the drawing Grand Final between Collingwood North Melbourne.

[20:06] Which I may just be because a lot of soccer matches 10 to Hinton girls some of them with no goals scored and hear the worst,
you know I’m still around because it had been under a sign that she’s normal,
anyway Deacon marking my calendar,
famous Irish.

[20:36] Musician polymastia the head of student accommodation services at deacon,
lived on campus with his wife a,
Big Iron Man we were just simply absorbed into it I mean we arrived with no relatives no links no nothing and we’re straight into it.
And Morgan and I checked the Deacon Soccer Club.
Wasn’t long after Jim Kelly Michelle wish remember he can pick those up from the airport and brought us to Jalan.
He always said that you couldn’t understand why I was the only member of Staff who had
his desk in the authoritative position are you back to the door looking out the window and hard to explain.

[21:44] Okay so you come to Australia,
I’m so over the next 25 years you take it taken and different courses in night time,
song for the convention for the open University so we get a change the quote deacon.
He’s actually go party of his team around the world because.
Very much see now it’s the bee’s knees or off-campus teaching and they ate their part from New England really we were the pioneers and I’m not,
really developed the whole concept car,
teaching addition,
cuz I got to be in all caps check in the mail and I remember actually.

[22:48] I was studying Unicode Clash of cultures and we actually had a massive strike in the town and we will all confined the house and I have an essay due,
on Clash of cultures while the national P&G workers We Roll,
I’m holding a clash of cultures outside the door I got this is one of yours Industrial Revolution and Society,
screw this is always football football,
so I can Facebook the most important question who do Barrack for.

[23:32] Given that my club in Scotland are united,
what a bunch of provincial losers,
did your long cats because that was in there very follow.
It was a success I couldn’t cool with it it’s very,
serious because John harms do you know John Hanson living National Treasure he is personally responsible for all this because the years when his children were born with the years in Bleach,
Joe don’t want its Premiership.
But I think he’s tried the Schnitt and I don’t think they’ll be any anymore you’re safe so we may have to live,
For Whom Shall I write,
so you’re still rocking it in Korea and you’ve always be moved away from the economic history.

[24:45] Much more now in Morrison is to the football.
Still needs to come out sometime but it’s mainly been Sport and both coaches football poll that how do you find time to write.
So European Cup Final in which Liverpool were playing Juventus and the two sets of times where.
They each other’s throats and a wall collapsed and 79 people died.

[25:30] And it was all put down to the violence of the supporters predominantly the Liverpool people on.

[25:42] That was pouring off criticism I should expect in Australia of the soccer hooligans and all the rest of it.
The Advertiser I think had the headline could it happen here.
I want you to read below this Banner headline the timing belt a woman with an umbrella.

[26:06] Cost of the problem because she ran on the patron delivered somebody would kick their son.
Until I wrote this long letter to daughter my cooler than editor of the Jalan Advertiser.
You’ve got to distinguish the causes of catastrophes from the causes of violence this thing was treated this a problem of public order long after they become public safety.

[26:37] And if you just look around yourself and your long there’s a whole series of very good things happening in the.
Shocker Freaky World,
you should find out what you get assignments, so I can finish up with a gig racing a boat,
the Westin Victoria soccer association with your children have played along the way and the Juniors,
I’m sure for the July show every week I’m writing the Soccer Corner.
I’m having terrible battles with the sub editors on the ID because I want introduce words with more than two syllables into the soccer column
4i what would go all these Bright Young migrant kids,
whose parents don’t speak English at home maybe haven’t got any books for the kids to read
show my argument is if the reading food Rock plants and the Shocker column just to see if he said something about me at least the reading something,
show.

[27:53] I’ve become involved in writing about that aspect of the game but arcademic Lee I’m interested in.

[28:03] The migrant clubs arrived along with whom I’ve been building out.
A relationship books with the players and their supporters and the other people around the game,
Francis brings me up short at one point she says wasting you substitute plain stupid game for goodness sake.
It takes me awhile to work it out but then I realized I’m sitting on this Cornucopia of.
Material about the migrant experience in Australia and how do these people,
come to terms with this strange and sophisticated society in which they find themselves
a great deal about Australia but we’ve got the language you got Shane check what it’s about and we know the geography and I Insure One,
but these are people who are alive with no English,
maybe a very different view of society operated coming from Yugoslavia or Germany or.
The Baltic republics whatever and I’m sitting on this evidence and there’s a story that needs to be told.

[29:29] Until I’m writing on the 100.
Violence in sport on the other hand I’m writing about Australian societies evolved,
become citizens of an Australian society which doesn’t really quite know what to do about them.
And show its it it’s a fascinating. Some of it starts to begin to appear first of all In Articles,
and I can date this the year 2000.

[30:09] Bill Murray another Scott I’ve been involved with over several years.
And he wrote about the religious wars in God’s got the old firm Rangers and Celtic.

[30:23] And we decided we would approach the Australian research Council for a grant to write the history of this.

[30:32] Stupid in its social context it in Australia,
part of the migrant absolutely institutions that were really set up,
to enable the migrants to integrated into the Arkham to towns with a society under soccer clubs played a huge part because the main purpose,
the enabled people to meet for could come a little bit earlier they could go to the game so that we can talk in their own language lamb,
how to relate to Australian Society in so many ways,
I will talk about the wicked for engaged because that’s what happens but,
Illinois SSA decided we needed to put this down on paper so we approached Arc and because Bill had already gone,
I take at least one if not two your Facebook showing Rangers and Celtic I’m not thinking of it in the first of his world soccer books.

[31:54] We put this in through La trobe University.

[31:58] Administrators at Latrobe one look at this and say this is not internationally competitive we’re not going to put the shop.
As an application I never even got to Arc it was stopped at Latrobe.

[32:14] I’m out of cash we just went a different ways,
year I almost to the day Gabby Smith Super Saiyan had to the social science applications for
Arc grants can you just take that one that you put in last year and give it at week and try again this year and I said no,
you should try not,
I should be up locations close at 5 it’s time to bring it in tomorrow morning but you’ll be alright.
Charlie went home tweet this thing it was mainly putting Deacon where do I throw bed beansies.
Drove in Probate finished about 3 in the morning drove into Deacon before 7 stuck it under the administrator door and this time it went off.
Australian research Council normally to the my PC referees we had fine.

[33:28] And I’ve got five golden apples from.
And the only critical thinking that came out I could remember voice.
This project is likely to seriously undervalue the contribution,
British in Brackets particularly Scottish migrants to the game in Australia
how much part bellanaija Bush being Scotch trailer by chance to be ethnic,
even though they were the first group in Australia going to way back today 1890 is the first group to.
Find clubs that are based on ethnicity rather than the local geographical location,
Church The Scorch the responsible for the first ethnic fruit bowl in Australia.
How interesting okay.
Save yourself having different ethnic groups with in Scotland,
Skylanders all characters from out there that nobody can understand you no like me challenge.

[34:56] Lowland Scotch invented by Diamond CM grief but the Gaelic speakers as well.
Okay so excited. It’s because it’s just.
Infiltrated you a whole lot really,
if you hear this book that we did on on the history of the game,
history of football in Australia.
Yeah and you realized it was a rushed job I mean we started in 2002 and it only took us 14 years.

[35:45] That’s pretty fantastic and you have some really interesting personal history of course with the history of soccer because you actually wrote To Sir Alex Ferguson.

[35:57] Yes in 1986 Australian,
because of course that was the World Cup qualifier.
And you actually wrote To Sir Alex Ferguson to detail the weaknesses and strengths,
so I suppose he could perhaps caught cheating with a bit more Precision something like that idea.
Okay you obviously still at be home the Australian Scottish dog.

[36:49] But you clearly feel very strongly and passionately about the soccer rules and Australian football now.

[37:04] Action Ross was playing soccer in Australia I think the Victorian country on the 12-step teen team,
told us at the end when they won the local championship,
we’ll take the kids to Europe for coaching and we just laugh and say yeah you don’t,
checking yellow kids to play football in Europe.

[37:40] So we got started fundraising lamington drawings,
but then this fellow at the heart attack on Titan. They were no sponsors and showing but somehow we managed to raise about 66,000
dollars real money in those days so they’ve gone off on.
Francis father died. Torrent show she was,
home for the funeral and I eventually so well, and I might as well shut up shopping followed them and when we go to Scotland,
latch when Australia qualifying to play them on a cross my ticket was the last of the ones for the return Germany and that was
schedule for the day before the game so I said that can’t possibly happen regarding organized this time than we saw their leg in Scotland and then we came back,
to see the second leg in Australia National Coach Frank.
Feisty Yugoslavia he had the idea that will play Scotland.

[39:03] In Darwin at noon on a bumpy patch just to make it difficult for the skirts and will get a result,
I don’t know what did the Australian soccer Federation they played it in Melbourne at Olympic Park on what was effectively a Bowling Green.
In the cool of the evening with the pitch haven’t been watered and even show.
Australia should have won that game but just couldn’t and.
Machine so I mean I’m not sure what happened precisely at that point but that was the turning point for me.
In terms of my.
Allegiance cease to be at Scott living in Australia and became an Australian with a Scottish Heritage.
Fantastic start the wonders of soccer and the unexpected influences have.
I’m on your toilet some of the great players like to Stephen.
What do you say is the biggest difference between that game of sort of you know 30 years ago and now.

[40:28] Navigate Miss much more athletic you you got a bunch of athletes playing the game at a higher speed.

[40:37] But the people I’m talking about the kind you would have flourished in any.
Generation when you look at the boots and the
Club early war in those days I mean the turnaround and you got these balls that when they got wet and smells like a wet dog,
hola.
Show remember somebody saying to Manchester United and that push concession dish definition,
Kaylee in people like not if they were playing the normal cheap stay with her they would never be able to be cash,
Vice pictures,
Steve Urkel anonymous tip did we just pass the ball 6 inches above the ground control,
stops with a hot the game has has become.
Atlas physical in many ways because even though.

[42:00] Physical to know it’s become much less violent on the field in many ways one of the good influence the television that you can see these things happening,
and you can adopt to them in a way so that the knowledge is spread
too much more evenly than in the old days where if you didn’t go to the game there was no other way to do.
Yeah yeah okay.

[42:41] The AFL when you have a real love for the IFL as well
traumatically,
Sonic hey so what you refer to a wicked far in game now are you referring to IFL Osaka,
indeed even though it has at least this longer history in this country.
Costco, Australian football AFL whatever Melbourne rules.
I didn’t both cases are you quite rightly say it I’m writing about the sport.
But I’m writing about the sport all the time in the context of the Society of which it took part on the way it devolves and the way that Society influences the game and sometimes
no much more rarely I think than people realized the game influences Society,
some of the pioneering in shocker for example.
In terms of relationships with Asia is absolutely fascinating.

[44:04] It becomes a vehicle off of Shaw of diplomacy we send the team to Vietnam in the middle of the of the war and they come home with her first International trophy for
Chaka Khan and the 50th Anniversary this year,
I’m not sure what that books about it football on war like it’s broadening soda understanding
interesting thing about soccer but it to the NFL.
Would you say that the NFL has that she helped for indigenous integration of vegetarian soul.
You know the fact that we have so many wonderful indigenous Plies and it’s really important to you know get rid of the racism out of the crowds at Garden.
But if you go back.
To the beginning right there is a fascinating story to be told this is where I’m going to get in Scotland my head in my hands to play with because,
along with a young fellow artist is a fetus with an article coming out in May and June next month.

[45:23] Which argues very strong. There is no evidence whatsoever about Z Nation.
Game of Melbourne rules which became Victorian rules and eventually Australian Rules.
There is no evidence whatsoever of any indigenous influence on that game when the rules were being drawn up what,
this very small group of people associated with Melbourne cricket and football clubs.
Did was to cherry-pick the rules of the English Public Schools.

[46:03] Right but draw up from them about 10 exactly 10 rules.
Quidditch where not a carbon copy.
Of any of the existing rules they weren’t rugby school they were eating the harder they were the Winchester right from the beginning we had a game of throne.
Because it was a cherry picker selection people of seized on this game of throne,
I’m still at hot let’s make this short of indigenous linkages around in Towson quite a bit you know I mean.
What do you say to that letter balls but the boys are all imported from England to begin with I’m in 50 starts with a round ball nope with an oval one,
right but it’s a big show me printing.

[47:09] And that’s what they play was to begin with Lynn told me where was introduces the rugby shaped bowl the one with the pointed but not that has no relation to,
Basham skin bolso Dana.
Vaccinated well it is important noise me is that we think that this has diverted attention from a much more.
Complex powerful evidence-based story.

[47:46] About how the few indigenous people who are left in the state with talking about down to.
Hundreds rather than Solutions the population of the area with no notice Victoria.
Was around 60,000 before the Europeans arrived a lot of people say that’s an overestimate but there’s a strong evidence that it it’s a magnet.

[48:18] By the end of the 19th century you’re down to under a thousand so it’s not just decimation which means
you know dropping by a tense this is this is this is 99% I mean it’s much worse in Victoria Australia.

[48:40] So these few indigenous people who are left are in.
Emission stations are government station Scott that there are the productivity of the state ebony set up in the women are just north of port,
framlingham near warrnambool,
Grandma you look on the lake tires done in East gippsland,
near Hughesville.
Who know all our young men of football playing age but these she the white man playing the stupid game and think we could do that.
I’m the break into that game despite the force fields that are preventing them from leaving the mission stations and despite The Gatekeepers of the white man’s game who don’t want a bother these
the Gathering of individuals and eventually they managed to form teams on the player local leagues,
they come in a gun show who stopped in New South Wales but then moved to New York.

[50:10] Because that part of.
And your shots will sharks if the River Arena located towards Melbourne Robertson towards Sydney the pick up the Chatham game.
I need to get into the motor legally when it five times are tough shakes.
Write the come down to Bendigo on Hammer and Anderson,
one guy right there by that she’s wonderful to see the sky and the dying race running rings and I mean actual physical rings around eventually there handicap,
the local League says you can play anybody in your team who’s older than 25,
Doug Nichols who becomes a famous footballer and then governor of Australia.

[51:10] Under Siege replicated at Ebenezer Richard Lake condo on the chat Lake tires 1913,
Carlton you to go on their end-of-season trip after winning the vfl,
show me go down in the valley on the player game against Lake original team play the Top Line,
free GTA V I felt and it comes after I’m teen refused by the vfl to LA,
their clubs to play against other original teams when they ask to come here.

[51:56] So I mean this has evidence this is something that happens in the second half of the 19th century.
Indigenous people try and break into the white man’s game and in,
the latter part of the century beginning of the twentieth century they are doing so should they have the Pioneer that we should be reception,
I’m dish it will explain why.

[52:25] When Martin Flanagan which floating best indigenous Origins thing a guy responded to him on email Dennis from the umbrella.
We have a couple of Aboriginal guys playing in in the team.
And I remember somebody saying on the sidelines they ought to be good at it it’s their game after all and nobody contradicted him where did we get that from,
well my answer is we got it from the Ebenezer mission where these guys we’re playing they were actually paid being paid to play.
In the 1880s.
Show I mean to me this is a far more interesting story than the one that we are fed First Fed about Mommy group.

[53:21] And then you get individuals who transcends the sport.
The guy whose biography I’m trying to write the moment it’s a fan of cold Albert pump,
Austin know first of all pump you up is that come from Roman general,
or Jeff Blaney said to me when I said what do you think he said well,
the word pumpy was used to describe a castle in Yorkshire on the north of England,
if you are done teaching pumpy in the shadows right not was avoiding being confined to the house,
a shower curtain rod Ryan show some apathy black guy,
might will get bumpy. Coming from somebody who had that kind of we don’t know but anyway I’m about to pump your ass and played one game for July.

[54:29] Honey played West Tommy Wells would you believe in 1872.
He had come down from framlingham to take part in the friendly societies.
Athletics meeting pedestrian beating as they called it anyone every relationship he 100 200 400 the hurdle Steeplechase.

[55:00] Comes back again in Easter,
for the Corrado Cricket Club Sports doesn’t do nearly so well there that’s comes out in one of the races but the very next day he’s playing for your long and usually only indigenous player.

[55:17] That we find that played for a top-line club in a competitive match.
Jalan Versi Carlton first game of the season 1872 and it finished up a no score draw.
Because that’s what freaky was like in those days it was a no score draw there are some games went on for 3 days without scoring,
because it was on lower-level scrummaging and kicking game in which weight and strength for much more important I think there’s only one example,
what of a newspaper report where somebody jumps to catch the ball so high marking which a lot of people associate with the trailer of the game,
I’m Tom p is not just a footballer and an athlete right he’s a cricketer he’s a horse race owner.
Randy Windsor racial Nissan horse is a horse thief he’s an Entertainer he’s a musician he’s a shovel.
Can you remind me in the corner in Ballarat probably off the top start Street.

[56:45] He’s talking to a crowd that she’s like Hyde Park Corner in London is only soap box right entertaining this cloud with a disquisition on the political situation in the prospects for war.

[57:00] But what year was this 1886 much money coming in.
Is she should burn trash carts in the audience miserable bunch of Scottish Countryside and singing.
Scottish songs.
Write the money portion. Kings in Grass castles get to mention.
Because she rock shop at her father’s place on.
The phenomenal Aboriginal Pompey Austin singing the latest Musical songs from London.

[57:55] Sorry K so this must be your next project.
Before we got been wonderful having you in the book page Roy hey thank you you need to tell us please you’ll 3 book that you would leave the world,
do we have a time capsule,
a thousand years from now what are the three books that you’re going to leave the world in the time capsule,
tonight David Goldblatt is a sociologist brilliant right.
And if you want a single volume that deals with.
The story of the game analytic but Dynamic on a great read.
Paperback edition please because when he brought her back
he pinched a lot of my material but didn’t acknowledge it but it’s in the paper box I made into quickie ones bows,
Shopkin related.

[59:07] The football Man by Arthur hope draft.
Aah very dated not threatening the 60-something.

[59:24] It is full of.

[59:28] Using individuals to bring out the broader story of of the game.

[59:37] Obviously you know talks about some of the superstars and talks about great games and so on but it’s not just that and it does make the strongest point.

[59:50] But this game is too good for people to destroy it by.
Unconscionable Behavior he says it much more of your phone is slowly than I’ve said here but that’s the point.

[1:00:06] And then another one.

[1:00:10] Bye have a Pearson entitled amazing dribble around the Northeast and the shift going.
To see the Grassroots Club in an area which is asphyxia football.
A lovely story of going to watch this little village team.

[1:00:36] On a cold night when he’s coming back to get the train.
Bike service.
He’s got time to kill tree Goshen is a local book shop so I can get chatting with a fella fella system,
watching the team I think still going to disappear.
How do you reflect on my list Village.

[1:01:14] There is nothing written down about these people so when they go.
Their Brilliance their contribution,
they had over the years I think they had somewhere between 30 and 40 people played at National level.

[1:01:35] The guy who did the Mason-Dixon Line came from the village but is he saying.
If they’ve been ballet dancers or opera singers that would be statutes to them the statues to them everybody would know about them the histories with ob right now,
but this is when these guys go there will be no memory of them whatsoever and if he says you know,
what is absolute box.
That he has written the book in the celebration of these Grassroots clubs what should never be forgotten,
wonderful well I think it’s really episode that,
given the Incredible Pets and I penetration of soccer around the world boys and girls.
We haven’t got one on the Matilda today.
A history of the Matilda says she’s PhD thesis.

[1:02:59] My pleasure you know what that I will grab it on for our survival Escape given that chance.

[1:03:05] Music.

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